Comments on: Some reasons why skeptics like me are losing the battle http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/ She drinks, you know. Sun, 01 Aug 2010 00:32:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: rmp http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6438 rmp Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:58:17 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6438 Thanks for that link. It will take some time to read and digest. Talking to closed minds is not my area of expertise. I discovered how useless it is back in 1968 when I was attending Squadron Officers School in Birmingham AL. Two high school senior girls who had never ventured 50 miles beyond Birmingham said to me that their city was the greatest in the world. I spent two fruitless hours trying to explain their crazy logic to them and failed miserably. So I have seldom try to get into a discussion when the mind is sealed shut along with the ears. What could have some degree of success if the mind is open just a little is to explain how history has shown that those they support have not had much success with their policies. Here is a link of a Washington Journal discussion today that makes that point about failed Repug economic politicies: <b>Washington Journal: Bruce Bartlett talked about his argument that supply-side economics, though effective in Reagan's day, has outlived its usefulness. He also contends that Conservatives need to accept programs that assist the "welfare state" (health care, for example) and that in an effort to fund those programs, a change in tax policy should be considered.</b> (45 min c-span video) http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/id/215125 Thanks for that link. It will take some time to read and digest. Talking to closed minds is not my area of expertise. I discovered how useless it is back in 1968 when I was attending Squadron Officers School in Birmingham AL. Two high school senior girls who had never ventured 50 miles beyond Birmingham said to me that their city was the greatest in the world. I spent two fruitless hours trying to explain their crazy logic to them and failed miserably. So I have seldom try to get into a discussion when the mind is sealed shut along with the ears.

What could have some degree of success if the mind is open just a little is to explain how history has shown that those they support have not had much success with their policies. Here is a link of a Washington Journal discussion today that makes that point about failed Repug economic politicies:

Washington Journal: Bruce Bartlett talked about his argument that supply-side economics, though effective in Reagan’s day, has outlived its usefulness. He also contends that Conservatives need to accept programs that assist the “welfare state” (health care, for example) and that in an effort to fund those programs, a change in tax policy should be considered. (45 min c-span video)
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/id/215125

]]> By: mikeinportc http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6437 mikeinportc Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:42:59 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6437 OT, sort of , ran across something yesterday - Theme Song for American Politics, & the Empire ? ;)(Pandora said I should like it) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juy_kLCV2_s&feature=related (or if you prefer it acoustic : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLT0hTxV6E&feature=fvw ) OT, sort of , ran across something yesterday – Theme Song for American Politics, & the Empire ? ;) (Pandora said I should like it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juy_kLCV2_s&feature=related

(or if you prefer it acoustic :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLT0hTxV6E&feature=fvw
)

]]> By: mikeinportc http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6436 mikeinportc Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:38:17 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6436 Yeah, rmp, I grew up without Little League Syndrome*,although in a less isolated place( & ~ 25 yrs later;). (Binghamton had ~65k then, also the smaller towns of Chenango Bridge, & where I am again, Port Crane) The only rules were 1)<i> Be Home For Dinner</i> 2)<i>Don't Go tho the River Without Adult Supervision</i> ( Age 9-12 changed to don't go alone, & @ 12 to Leave a note, & take the dogs with you[because of the Energizer Bunny-Dalmatian?:) 3)<i> If you go anywhere out of the ordinary, tell someone, or leave a note.</i> ( & 1a - leave enough time to get homework done) We organized our own activities with no adult help. Maybe it's just my imagination,but seems as though we had a better time doing it too. My first (that I remember) big episode of skepticism , was sitting in church at age 10 or 11?, the day after watching a National Geographic special on the Tasaday people, a stone age people (technologically) in the Phillipines , that (supposedly) had no words for war, or hate, or any possessive concept. The normally sedate, New Testament-type priest ( Yes , I'm a "recovering" Catholic - probably a never-to-be-finished process ;) was giving an Old Testament, fire & brimstone sermon, on the damnation of non-believers. So,.. here are some people who are living what Jesus ( is attributed to have) preached, maybe the best human beings on the planet, who are going straight to hell because they haven't heard of some Middle Eastern prophet, from ~2000 years ago, so aren't believing in HIM, and practicing the proper rituals, (& stuff). Somethin' wrong with that. ( & if HE is so all-powerful, & knowing & loving, how come they don't know? & why would HE set up such good people to be screwed over like that? ;) * The idea of it as Little League Syndrome, occured to me during my time umpiring, & coaching & officiating soccer (futbol). I tried to mitigate it whenever I could, by keeping the adults at arms length,& with humor ( often @ the expense of overly serious/domineering adults ) . I started when I was 16 ( football ruined my shoulder for playing baseball), and was coching when I was 23, so maybe it helped me see it more from the kids perspective. As for the Tea Partiers, & health care ( & other issues), Arthur Silber has some ideas,that make real change almost seem possible. ( In part, referring back to the British anti-slavery campaign) http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2009/11/tribalism-and-destructive-politics-of.html I have had some conversations with tea-partyers, Beckists, and sympathizers. There is some common ground, but geez!,getting through the unreality is a tedious, and not thoroughly successful enterprise. Any suggestions? Yeah, rmp, I grew up without Little League Syndrome*,although in a less isolated place( & ~ 25 yrs later;). (Binghamton had ~65k then, also the smaller towns of Chenango Bridge, & where I am again, Port Crane) The only rules were 1) Be Home For Dinner
2)Don’t Go tho the River Without Adult Supervision ( Age 9-12 changed to don’t go alone, & @ 12 to Leave a note, & take the dogs with you[because of the Energizer Bunny-Dalmatian?:)
3) If you go anywhere out of the ordinary, tell someone, or leave a note.
( & 1a – leave enough time to get homework done)
We organized our own activities with no adult help. Maybe it’s just my imagination,but seems as though we had a better time doing it too.

My first (that I remember) big episode of skepticism , was sitting in church at age 10 or 11?, the day after watching a National Geographic special on the Tasaday people, a stone age people (technologically) in the Phillipines , that (supposedly) had no words for war, or hate, or any possessive concept. The normally sedate, New Testament-type priest ( Yes , I’m a “recovering” Catholic – probably a never-to-be-finished process ;) was giving an Old Testament, fire & brimstone sermon, on the damnation of non-believers. So,.. here are some people who are living what Jesus ( is attributed to have) preached, maybe the best human beings on the planet, who are going straight to hell because they haven’t heard of some Middle Eastern prophet, from ~2000 years ago, so aren’t believing in HIM, and practicing the proper rituals, (& stuff). Somethin’ wrong with that. ( & if HE is so all-powerful, & knowing & loving, how come they don’t know? & why would HE set up such good people to be screwed over like that? ;)

* The idea of it as Little League Syndrome, occured to me during my time umpiring, & coaching & officiating soccer (futbol). I tried to mitigate it whenever I could, by keeping the adults at arms length,& with humor ( often @ the expense of overly serious/domineering adults ) . I started when I was 16 ( football ruined my shoulder for playing baseball), and was coching when I was 23, so maybe it helped me see it more from the kids perspective.

As for the Tea Partiers, & health care ( & other issues), Arthur Silber has some ideas,that make real change almost seem possible. ( In part, referring back to the British anti-slavery campaign)

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2009/11/tribalism-and-destructive-politics-of.html

I have had some conversations with tea-partyers, Beckists, and sympathizers. There is some common ground, but geez!,getting through the unreality is a tedious, and not thoroughly successful enterprise. Any suggestions?

]]> By: dirigo http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6435 dirigo Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:41:17 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6435 By any "reasonable" measure, the connection between the excesses of unregulated media, including the demise of the fairness doctrine, and the near riotous, clearly demagogic behavior of popular radio talkers, is pretty clear. There are real dangers now to the idea of balanced public debate. It's hiding in plain sight; and they surely will keep refusing to take any responsibility. The gravy train is just too lucrative to jump from, to say nothing of delicious taste of power and influence over so many "inquiring minds." Has this media phenomenon become a "clear and present danger" to the idea of civil debate in this country? Well, du-uh ... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/opinion/09krugman.html?ref=opinion But I agree the fairness horse is out of the barn, and getting real balance back into daily "debate" on the American broadcast spectrum is probably pie in the sky. New media makes this all much more problematic too. But I think I said before, somewhere here, that at least, the "Reaganite" policies relating to media, have ruined local radio across the country as a source of close to the bone debate, debate and discussion conducted where people live. That's done and gone, as is viable local radio news as a form. The last straw for me as a radio news reporter was, as I think I've mentioned, in New Haven, where Clear Channel took over several stations. They consolidated across the board, gutting especially the news operations. They went into talk big time, showcasing Limbaugh as their marquee offering. And along the way, Glenn Beck, who was almost at the end of the trail in his career, working in one of the Clear Channel stations as a deranged morning "personality," evolved into a talker in New Haven. Clear Channel enabled Beck; and the rest is history. I wouldn't walk around the corner to listen to Beck, Limbaugh, or any other of these fakers. They are blabby, flabby little boys; and the idea that these adolescent mentalities, marketed as a form of media programming, could threaten to upset real political give and take in this country - real give and take aimed at workable political solutions - is troubling and very real. They're hiding in their studios, skulking out amongst us every day. They're cowards, and I'm pointedly skeptical. By any “reasonable” measure, the connection between the excesses of unregulated media, including the demise of the fairness doctrine, and the near riotous, clearly demagogic behavior of popular radio talkers, is pretty clear.

There are real dangers now to the idea of balanced public debate. It’s hiding in plain sight; and they surely will keep refusing to take any responsibility. The gravy train is just too lucrative to jump from, to say nothing of delicious taste of power and influence over so many “inquiring minds.”

Has this media phenomenon become a “clear and present danger” to the idea of civil debate in this country?

Well, du-uh …

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/opinion/09krugman.html?ref=opinion

But I agree the fairness horse is out of the barn, and getting real balance back into daily “debate” on the American broadcast spectrum is probably pie in the sky.

New media makes this all much more problematic too.

But I think I said before, somewhere here, that at least, the “Reaganite” policies relating to media, have ruined local radio across the country as a source of close to the bone debate, debate and discussion conducted where people live. That’s done and gone, as is viable local radio news as a form.

The last straw for me as a radio news reporter was, as I think I’ve mentioned, in New Haven, where Clear Channel took over several stations. They consolidated across the board, gutting especially the news operations. They went into talk big time, showcasing Limbaugh as their marquee offering. And along the way, Glenn Beck, who was almost at the end of the trail in his career, working in one of the Clear Channel stations as a deranged morning “personality,” evolved into a talker in New Haven. Clear Channel enabled Beck; and the rest is history.

I wouldn’t walk around the corner to listen to Beck, Limbaugh, or any other of these fakers.

They are blabby, flabby little boys; and the idea that these adolescent mentalities, marketed as a form of media programming, could threaten to upset real political give and take in this country – real give and take aimed at workable political solutions – is troubling and very real.

They’re hiding in their studios, skulking out amongst us every day.

They’re cowards, and I’m pointedly skeptical.

]]> By: rmp http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6434 rmp Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:43:58 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6434 As much as I would like some saneness return to talk radio, the fairness cows have been out of the barn door for far too long and I think it would be a nightmare to try and coax or force them back in. Can you imagine what it might take to enforce a Fairness Doctrine or get one without congress throwing the biggest fit in history? Then you have the Internet which also greatly complicates any attempt at enforcement. As much as I would like some saneness return to talk radio, the fairness cows have been out of the barn door for far too long and I think it would be a nightmare to try and coax or force them back in. Can you imagine what it might take to enforce a Fairness Doctrine or get one without congress throwing the biggest fit in history? Then you have the Internet which also greatly complicates any attempt at enforcement.

]]> By: dirigo http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6433 dirigo Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:18:22 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6433 Shout it out ... http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/11/09/whos_afraid_of_the_big_bad_fairness_doctrine/ Shout it out …

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/11/09/whos_afraid_of_the_big_bad_fairness_doctrine/

]]> By: jjl http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6432 jjl Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:57:54 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6432 I, too, worry and wonder about the way American kids grow up with so much of their time scheduled and monitored and fretfully regulated by anxious parents. It's a radical change in the experience of growing up, a change which has occurred over just 2 or 3 generations. Is it bad, good? This kind of change has almost got to be important, but in what ways? I, too, worry and wonder about the way American kids grow up with so much of their time scheduled and monitored and fretfully regulated by anxious parents. It’s a radical change in the experience of growing up, a change which has occurred over just 2 or 3 generations. Is it bad, good? This kind of change has almost got to be important, but in what ways?

]]> By: dirigo http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6426 dirigo Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:21:25 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6426 Back to the question of assholes, who are they? http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/just_ugly.php#more?ref=fpblg Back to the question of assholes, who are they?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/just_ugly.php#more?ref=fpblg

]]> By: cocktailhag http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6422 cocktailhag Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:26:00 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6422 What a great article, RMP, and I'm impressed, though hardly surprised, that Robert wrote back to you. It is a sad day when such an appeal to morality seems so radical, and therefore newsworthy. What a great article, RMP, and I’m impressed, though hardly surprised, that Robert wrote back to you. It is a sad day when such an appeal to morality seems so radical, and therefore newsworthy.

]]> By: rmp http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/uncategorized/some-reasons-why-skeptics-like-me-are-losing-the-battle/comment-page-1/#comment-6420 rmp Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:00:52 +0000 http://www.cocktailhag.com/blog/?p=2862#comment-6420 I agree some of the Repug congress critters are smart. I'm sure you would agree that they are cruel and inhumane to take advantage of the sheep and feed the wealthy so they too can be wealthy. 237 congress critters are millionaires. If they were skeptics that loved and revered the truth above all else and had compassion for the less fortunate, they would never become the extreme assholes they are and lead. I agree some of the Repug congress critters are smart. I’m sure you would agree that they are cruel and inhumane to take advantage of the sheep and feed the wealthy so they too can be wealthy. 237 congress critters are millionaires. If they were skeptics that loved and revered the truth above all else and had compassion for the less fortunate, they would never become the extreme assholes they are and lead.

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